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Strange First Layer Printing Problems

rhaub101rhaub101 Posts: 89🌟 Super Member 🌟
edited November 2018 in Getting Started & Troubleshooting
this is my initial layer (bottom of a vase). What could be wrong?
Post edited by Samuel Pinches on

Comments

  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,997Administrator
    I think perhaps your first layer is too close to the bed.
  • rhaub101rhaub101 Posts: 89🌟 Super Member 🌟
    I used the plastic leveling tool that came with the printer. That doesn’t seem to work well so I used a single sheet of paper. I made it just tight enough that I could feel a little drag, and also tried it until it takes a good tug to move it. Grrrrrrrrr
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,997Administrator
    What is your first layer height?
  • rhaub101rhaub101 Posts: 89🌟 Super Member 🌟
    .3
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,997Administrator
    Ok, can you please try the suggestions I've put on this page, and see how you go? https://jgaurorawiki.com/a5/bed-adhesion
    • 0.12mm first layer height
    • 12mm/s first layer speed
    • levelled to ~0.075mm (single sheet of paper)
    • PLA bed temp 67C
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,997Administrator
    Also, in future, please use descriptive titles for the posts - this way other people might be able to find the post and see if they have a similar problem. "Help please" doesn't communicate what the problem is about. 
  • rhaub101rhaub101 Posts: 89🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Sorry Samuel, got it. My “Help please” was in a moment of frustration.
    Thanked by 1Samuel Pinches
  • rhaub101rhaub101 Posts: 89🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Well I went ahead and printed the vase at:
    .12 first layer height
    12mm first layer speed
    leveled the bed again to .075 with paper
    bed at 67c
    This photo is looking at the bottom of the vase after printing.
    The first layers are bad but the rest is beautiful.
    Is this underextrusion? The first few layers of the bottom are not “smashed” down on the bed as I would expect. Any more help is appreciated. Thanks
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,997Administrator
    Hmm... if you watch the printer doing the first layer, what happens? Are you able to record a video? If you record an unlisted video on youtube, you can paste the URL here to embed it automatically.
  • rhaub101rhaub101 Posts: 89🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Here is the video of the first layer. The only change I made to this one is I scaled it up from 2” tall to 3” tall.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MaEumQiUESo
  • Samuel PinchesSamuel Pinches Posts: 2,997Administrator
    Thanks for the video, it looks like your first layer may be too close to the bed. Try and tighten the bed screws just a tiny tad and see how that goes. I think the second layer is pulling up the first layer because of the ridges on the first layer.
  • rhaub101rhaub101 Posts: 89🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Thanks, I’ll try that. So it seems that consistency will always be an issue. If I level the bed before each print as I’ve heard suggested, it will always be hit and miss. I have leveled with a sheet of paper, the plastic tool included with the printer and a .078 metal feeler gauge. There doesn’t seem to be much difference between any of them. Would mesh bed leveling make things more consistent and eliminate this need for moving the bed up and down constantly? And thanks again Samuel for ALL your help.
  • ProkktorProkktor Posts: 146🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Yes in my opinion you basically have to use mesh bed leveling, while the bed is at printing temp...

    Additionally I print a skirt everytime and use the babystep buttons to adjust the height.

    Strangly I have to press Baby - arround 6 times to archive optimal heigt, so I used
    G29 S4 Z-0.15
    M500
    To move the mesh 0.15 (6 babysteps) to the negative on the z axis.

    I can now print a consistent 1st layer on my 50 C bed, and then turn the bed down to 30 C for power consumtion...

    Meshes rock^^

  • rhaub101rhaub101 Posts: 89🌟 Super Member 🌟
    So is mesh bed advantageous even if most prints are 100mm square or less? I can see where very large prints would benefit. I haven’t learned babystepping yet but is that done while it is printing?
  • ProkktorProkktor Posts: 146🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Yes with the community LCD Firmware you have the Babystep + and - buttons.
    They move the hotend by 0.025mm up or down for the current print only.

    So I stay with the printer while its printing the skirt and adjust printing height, after a few tries you can easily see if the nozzle is to high and the plastic falls on the bed or if its to low and the plastic is squished so flat you can see right through it in the middle of the line.

    I would still use the mesh because I find it difficult to level the middle of the bed, where i have to adjust all 4 screws the exact same amount to not influence the other 4 points. Mesh leveling is also far easier and faster in my opinion. 
  • sasasasa Posts: 36🌟 Super Member 🌟
    I got similar problem after migrating to new Cura: bed is leveled to paper width, skirt is printing beautifully, outer layers are fine but fill warps and looks as bad as on first and second pictures.
    Brims are also awful, warping after 5-10 lines.
    Used Samuel's settings without success. However before they worked just fine, was printing without brims.
    On the other hand, when using rafts initial layers are printed fine over same area and are sticking great.
    Maybe someone has any insight on difference in flow settings for raft, brim and filing?


  • ProkktorProkktor Posts: 146🌟 Super Member 🌟
    I am also using the latest cura, it seems to use less filament on brims/skirts than on the actual first layer, but that may be some strange setting in my cura i overlooked.
  • Bman2000Bman2000 Posts: 1Member
    I have started using some of the features on the community firmware for the LCD display.  I have just used the filament unload function and noticed that the unload speed is way to fast. It has actually been increased from the default 1200 to 1600. This actually causes the extruder to grind when it first starts pulling hte filament out of the hotend. I have my hotend set to 210. The speed is fine once the filament is out of the hotend. This is most likely due to the resistance offered by the hot plastic.

    I suggest the speed be reduced or that users first use the feeder out button for the first 20mm, on slow, or so and then use the filament out button for the remainder.
  • sasasasa Posts: 36🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Well, I tinkered yesterday with small model sliced couple of month ago on JCGreat. It has wide (10mm) brim, located in the center of bed. I know that it was printable, I printed it before hotbed problems.
    Tried to print first on bed leveled while hot - first layer was bad. Leveled a bit, tried again - slightly better but still no good.
    Waited for the bed to cool, leveled it again and printed same file just fine.
    So in my case cold leveling is working better. Mesh leveling is definitely way to go but I have strong impression that bed level is messed up after long prints :(

  • sasasasa Posts: 36🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Looks like I found the right Cura settings: 220 degrees for first layer, 110% flow. Brim is crisp, first layer smooth.
  • ProkktorProkktor Posts: 146🌟 Super Member 🌟
    Yes I found that at 230C I can even print on an unleveled bed from 0.5mm over the surface^^

    Problem is that the bed warps when it gets hot, you cant prevent that because it consists of more than one material, that probably acounts for your varying experiences when leveling at different temps.

    The only way to compensate for the warping is Mesh bed Leveling. (or buying a new bed composed of just 1 material)

    My first successful pints I also increased temp and flow, but that got me other problems like warping and elepfants feet and so on, you really need to mesh^^
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