Extruder and Bed same temp problems

Ophiocos

I received my A5 a couple of days ago. I noticed the bed and extruder measured -15 c, so I looked for loose connections, and so on, I dont know what I did but something worked out, since the temp on both went up to about 17 c. I then set the extruder to 200 c and the bed to 100 c - this is where it got spooky, the bed didnt stop heating at 100 c it continued - at 120 c I stopped it, this morning I tried to set the bed at target 40 c first and then 60 c, funny thing bed and extruder temp are synchronous, even though I maintained the extruder off. How is that possible? and more important how do I troubleshoot it? 
I pulled a log from Octoprint, but it is pretty long :-)

Samuel Pinches

Sounds bizarre! Not really sure where to start. Can you try manually setting temperatures with the USB unplugged, and see if the same synchronous behaviour happens?

Ophiocos

I have tried it, the printer is off by about 15 degrees C (the only thermometer I have is a meat thermometer, however I trust that more than the onboard) I tried heating up to 60 again today, only on the bed, temp stable, but external thermometer says 75. I have had the printer disassembled, and measured all connections, everything checks out (only used diode measure) if I turn the bed on it will heat up to the degrees I set it on (plus 15) but if I do the same with the extruder it will take the bed with it - I am mystified  

Ophiocos

So next trial. I set the extruder for 200 sensor showed 130, meat thermometer 230, the bed followed suit however stayed unheated. I guess it was hotter then 230, the nozzle oozed and bubbled ooh my world this is more than I was ready for :-) 

Ophiocos

So yes they are synchronous, but only on the sensors, the heaters are turned on as they should - only they get to hot

Samuel Pinches

Which firmware are you using?

Ophiocos

I just flashed the Community Firmware 1.1.8C

Ophiocos

Correction I flashed it two days ago, the printer behaves in the same way :-/ 

Samuel Pinches

1. Can you tell me more about your meat thermometer - is it an IR thermometer? Is it digital?
   
2. If you turn bed and nozzle heater off... and then send "M104 S100 T0" does the nozzle start heating? 
3. Does the bed start heating? 
4. If you watch the temperature display in pronterface, what does it show? 
5. Does the temperature display in pronterface match the temperature display on the LCD?

Ophiocos

1. It is a thermometer with a big needle, and it is digital - I know its not accurate - but the best I can do right now.
2. The Nozzle heats according to disp, and prtrface 100 c, according to thermometer 130 c pronterface and the printer agrees :-)
3. The bed doesnt start heating, the bed sensor just follows suit, it is 24 c or so
4. prntrface showas bed and nozzle on same temp.
5. and yes they are matching.

Samuel Pinches

When you connect to pronterface, can you please post a copy of the firmware connection log? The first 20 or so lines that are printed when the printer connects to pronterface?

Ophiocos

This is all she wrote:

WriteFile failed (WindowsError(5, 'Adgang n\xe6gtet.'))

[ERROR] Can't read from printer (disconnected?) (SerialException): call to ClearCommError failed

[ERROR] Can't write to printer (disconnected?) (SerialException): WriteFile failed (WindowsError(5, 'Adgang n\xe6gtet.'))

[ERROR] Aborting connection attempt after 4 failed writes.

[ERROR] Can't read from printer (disconnected?) (SerialException): call to ClearCommError failed

Connecting...

start

Printer is now online.

echo:Marlin 1.1.8

echo: Last Updated: 2017-12-25 12:00 | Author: (Telli Mantelli, Kris Waclawski, Samuel Pinches & Michael Gilardi, 21 Jan 2018)

echo:Compiled: Jun 15 2018

echo: Free Memory: 3022  PlannerBufferBytes: 1264

echo:V47 stored settings retrieved (678 bytes; crc 33483)

echo:SD init fail

>>> M104 S100 T0

SENDING:M104 S100 T0

Samuel Pinches

So let me see if I understand this:
- heating extruder works
- heating bed works
- nozzle temperature seems to be roughly accurate 
- heating nozzle makes bed temperature reading follow

It sounds to me like there is something seriously wrong with the motherboard, or a cross over with the signal wires for the thermistors. Can you please:

1.  open the chassis (watch DaHai's video) 
2. unplug the thermistor wires for the bed sensor ( white plug marked TB on the motherboard)
3. and then heat the nozzle, and see if the bed sensor reading still increases. If so, the motherboard is faulty, and we can go from there.

Ophiocos

chassis is opened and plug for hb is disconnected, disp. says -3 have set ext to heat to 100 c but 5 minutes and no increase

Samuel Pinches

I need as many details as possible: what is the nozzle temp and what is the bed temp for each scenario, and please wait 2 minutes after heating starts to see if there are any error messages in pronterface.

1) if you heat the bed now, what happens? 
2) if you heat the nozzle now, what happens? 

Ophiocos

report:
Connecting...

start

Printer is now online.

echo:Marlin 1.1.8

echo: Last Updated: 2017-12-25 12:00 | Author: (Telli Mantelli, Kris Waclawski, Samuel Pinches & Michael Gilardi, 21 Jan 2018)

echo:Compiled: Jun 15 2018

echo: Free Memory: 3022  PlannerBufferBytes: 1264

echo:V47 stored settings retrieved (678 bytes; crc 33483)

echo:SD init fail

>>> M104 S100 T0

SENDING:M104 S100 T0

Error:Heating failed, system stopped! Heater_ID: 0

[ERROR] Error:Heating failed, system stopped! Heater_ID: 0

Error:Printer halted. kill() called!

[ERROR] Error:Printer halted. kill() called!

Ophiocos

it is still -3

The printer is on neg. 3 and doesnt seem to heat or respond, neither bed nor hotend is responding

Ophiocos

It sounds plausible - it was my hunch also, either that or both bed and Extruder are defect (not likely)

Samuel Pinches

So the error that you see is what should happen - the printer firmware has safeguards that should prevent heating if the sensors fail. When the safeguard kicks in, the printer has to be restarted and reconnected.

BUT - we unplugged the bed thermistor, and the nozzle heater thermistor reading has failed as a result? That isn't right. Can you please be specific about which reading is showing -3? We unplugged the TB sensor to the bed temperature sensor, then the reading for the nozzle has gone to -3? That sounds like the thermistor reading in the firmware is mixed up.

Can you please open the file "pins_RAMPS.h" in your marlin firmware folder.

Can you please tell me what numbers are next to the lines:

#define TEMP_0_PIN         A   // Analog Input

#define TEMP_1_PIN         B   // Analog Input

#define TEMP_BED_PIN       C   // Analog Input

A= 
B=
C=

Ophiocos

So suppose I would have to buy a new MB which would you recommend? I already ordered stepper-drivers TMC2130 v 1.1 I see at least two on ebay at an affordable price range, I honestly dont expect to get the help from Gearbest

Ophiocos

Can you please tell me what numbers are next to the lines:

#define TEMP_0_PIN         13   // Analog Input

#define TEMP_1_PIN         15   // Analog Input

#define TEMP_BED_PIN    14   // Analog Input

A= 
B=
C=

Ophiocos

Sorry here they are :-)

Samuel Pinches

Ok. Keep that file handy.

on the board there are three thermistor inputs, marked th1, tb, and th2. You only need two inputs. We just need to figure out what is actually going wrong, so that we can swap the dead/erratic channel with the spare one.

this can be done by swapping those port numbers around, and then reflashing the firmware.

Samuel Pinches

You may not need a new board, but the behaviour you have described is beyond bizarre.

Samuel Pinches

Can you plug in the white plug back in (tb) and unplug the black cable (th1). Does the nozzle heat up correctly now?

Ophiocos

ooh and yes it is -3

Ophiocos

Values are positive now ext = 4c bed = 3c but no movement on temp the last 5 minutes or so

Samuel Pinches

so in both configurations, with white plug or black plug only, neither sensor has a real reading?

Ophiocos

Well bizarre is an understatement :-) I am mystified beyond and above, yay my new printer (it prints with icecubes - LOL)

Ophiocos

And the report as expected:

Connecting...

start

Printer is now online.

echo:Marlin 1.1.8

echo: Last Updated: 2017-12-25 12:00 | Author: (Telli Mantelli, Kris Waclawski, Samuel Pinches & Michael Gilardi, 21 Jan 2018)

echo:Compiled: Jun 15 2018

echo: Free Memory: 3022  PlannerBufferBytes: 1264

echo:V47 stored settings retrieved (678 bytes; crc 33483)

Error:MINTEMP triggered, system stopped! Heater_ID: 0

[ERROR] Error:MINTEMP triggered, system stopped! Heater_ID: 0

Error:Printer halted. kill() called!

[ERROR] Error:Printer halted. kill() called!

Samuel Pinches

Ok, that error is what I was expecting to see!!! Finally something that makes some sense!!